With a degree in archaeology, you won’t just spend your life digging up skeletal remains and cultural artefacts from times long gone – although that’s a major part of its appeal. You’ll also get to uncover the hidden stories of humanity’s deep past and preserve them for future generations through a variety of professions that’ll either take you below the earth’s surface or into the heart of academia and educational tourism. In this episode, we speak with museum curator, Nurul Hamizah Afandi about the most exciting (and challenging) aspects of pursuing this field as an international student herself. We also look into the different career paths this degree will open doors to that go beyond literally unearthing human history.
Maryam: Hey, how’s it going, guys! Welcome back to the Extra Credit podcast.
To those tuning in for the first time, this is a series where we speak to international students, graduates, and professors from around the world about the beauty of studying abroad.
I’m Maryam, your host for today.
If you’re a fan of Indiana Jones, The Mummy trilogy, and anything to do with the history of humankind, you’re going to want to listen to our special guest, Nurul Hamizah Afandi.
Hamizah here is a museum curator at the Perbadanan Muzium Negeri Pahang in Malaysia. She visits museum galleries and archives, researches their collections of historic artefacts, and tailors different exhibitions and displays to attract new visitors to the museum.
But before she got here, she was a curious archaeology and anthropology student at University College London (or UCL) in the UK.
Welcome, Hamizah. We’re excited to have you here with us. How are you?
Hamizah: I'm good. Thank you so much for having me here. It's truly an honour to be invited to speak on this podcast as well.
Maryam: We’re glad to have you here as well. We're excited to learn more about, you know, what archaeology and anthropology is about. So alright, let's go back to the beginning before you started digging into bygone eras when you were just a senior high school student at Mara Junior Science College. Tell us, Hamiza, you were a math whiz who participated in the National Maths Olympiad. What suddenly inspired you to study archaeology? That's quite the switch in interest, isn't it?
Hamizah: Alright. Yes, so, like you said, Mathematics has always been, I guess, one of my favorite subjects and, I guess, it's partly because I got the exposure from a very young age because my mom herself is a math teacher. So we've been, like say, my mom's teaching math for students who come over to our home to get, like, extra classes and things like that. So, I guess I can say that math was part of my life because I have this, like, huge family thing going around. But I guess, during my upper form of high school, at some point – we had to choose between taking biology or accounting for our SPM (Sijil Pelajaran Malaysia) subjects. Like, you can't take both.
So, it was at that point that I started thinking more deeply about life after school, like what I want to do, um, for my career and so on, because, well, it's not the end of the world of choosing like either biology or accounting, but then still, it somehow can probably limit or restrict your options afterwards.
So, back then in school, we had to do this, ah, one test. It's called a RIASEC test and I did that quite a few times with – one of my aunts is a counselor so we did that together as well. So, it's one of those occupational personality type tests. So, every time I did the test, I got the same result. So, it basically stands for, I think, R-I-A-S-E-C stands for – was it realistic, investigative, artistic, social, entrepreneurship or something, and then conventional. So, I've always gotten the ‘I’ component very high, like, the – my marks for that component (were) very high. So, I guess I found out that I'm into careers with a very investigative nature of some sort.
So, I guess it makes sense because Mathematics and Chemistry were two of my favorite subjects in school. And then they were like, with maths and chemistry, there's always, like, problems that we have to find solutions to and then you have questions that you have to find answers to. So, it's like, at the time, obviously you were not really like, familiar with research kind of thing, so I guess investigative is kind of like the best term to describe it. So, because of that, I tried to think harder about what (of) that has always interested me. So, I love watching crime documentaries. I love, reading crime, you know, books. In fact, one of my favorite novels is Sherlock Holmes. So it's during that time, I was like, okay, I think I'm into something related to, like, forensic science and something very, very research, very investigative of nature. So, um yeah, at that point, I was like, paying more attention to my interests: The books I read and, like, the movies I watched, to think about a career that I want to, like, go into. So, that's how it comes in the first place.
Maryam: Interesting. I'm still wondering how, like, that ended up evolving into your interest in archaeology, because that's about, you know, studying what happened in the past, like civilisations from centuries or millennia ago. So, how did it get into that sort of, um, specialisation?
Hamizah: Right, so, it started out as my personal interest in Forensic Science. So, basically, I was into, like, these crime documentaries and crime novels and stuff. So, I started planning to further my studies in Bachelors of Forensic Science or something related to that. But then, because I got a scholarship after SPM – so, I secured a scholarship by Yayasan Khazanah. But then, the one that they offered me is the one that they send students abroad, particularly to the UK and the US. So with that scholarship, there are limited options of unis that they send the students to because they only offer to send the students to top universities in the UK. So, I have, sort of, limited options of unis that I can choose on my UCAS application. So, because of that, um, I found out that (of) all the seven universities – seven UK universities – that they will send me to, none of them offered Forensic Science as a bachelor's degree. So, I sort of had to pivot my plan a little bit and sort of choose another degree that would still allow me to pursue Forensic Science on a higher education level – for example, masters – in the future if I want to still do Forensic Science. So, um, I did some research, digging out some information on the internet and trying to find what kind of degree that I can do as an option or alternative.
So, obviously you can still do the hard sciences like Chemistry, Biology, and still pursue Forensic Science, but then I also kept coming across these two unfamiliar fields or terms which are “archaeology” and “anthropology.” And then, just looking into these two terms [more deeply], I found out that there are, you know, there are studies about human behavior. And then, there's like a huge overlap between Science and also Humanities. So, as somebody who has a wide range of interests, which is – I'm also interested in science, but at the same time, social sciences has always been something that’s of my interest as well – I think this is like a perfect combination of studies that I can do, and then still will allow me to do Forensics in the future if I want to. So, I ended up just going for the course and just finding out what kind of requirements, what’s the degree about in the UK, and what the course structure was like.
Hamizah: I went to talk to my academic advisor in my A level college as well, and then also discussed this with my scholarship provider. And since everyone's fine with me doing Archaeology (and) Anthropology, so I just, yeah, “Go for it.”
Maryam: That sounds really awesome. Was UCL one of many options? Or was it, like, the only university that was offering Archaeology and Anthropology?
Hamizah: So, in the UK, there are many universities that offer Archaeology as a degree, but the seven universities that were in my list or the ones in Khazanah’s lists were Oxford, Cambridge, Imperial, UCL, LSE, King's and Edinburgh. And out of those seven, only Oxford and UCL offered this course. And yeah, I had to apply (to) some other courses not related to archaeology as well. I had to apply for Anthropology in LSE just as a backup. But yeah, those are the only two universities in the options available for me that I can apply to. So yeah.
Maryam: And UCL's programme attracted you more, right?
Hamizah: Mhmm, yeah, because I think, with UCL, I think being in London, I guess, they have more access to museums. They have, like, more access to libraries in London as well and then they have a lot of labs, so I was quite lucky and privileged because I was able to go to both unis because Oxford called me for an interview and then it had to be an on-site interview. So, Khazanah paid for my flight to go for the interview in Oxford and then, at the same time, actually two weeks before my interview in Oxford, we had this Open Day for (UCL) offer holders. I had the chance to go and look at how the university looked like, what the classes looked like, what the people there looked like. So, I resonated more with UCL at the time compared to Oxford because of the facilities that are available. And then there's a wider range of expertise in UCL as well. And then, I think, in the field of archaeology, UCL is one of the top anyways. So yeah, it attracted me more than other universities in the UK.
Maryam: Tell us, what was your programme like? Were there interesting lessons, projects, and coursework?
Hamizah: So, when I was in UCL, my degree was under the Institute of Archaeology, or we call it IOA. So, for the bachelor's degree, my department offered multiple different types of degrees. So, we had BA Archaeology. We had BSc Archaeology as well. And then they used to offer BA Egyptian Archaeology. But due to low demand, they have not offered the course anymore. And then, they also have BA Classical Archaeology and Classical Civilisation, but then the one that I took is BA Archaeology and Anthropology, which is like a joint degree. So, apart from modules that I had from the Institute of Archaeology, we also had the modules from the Anthropology department.
So, it's kind of like, compared to other degrees offered by IOA, according to the seniors, it's like actually double the workload because we had more modules that we had to take. Because maybe the modules that we take can count for one credit for other people, but it counts for 0.5 credit because we had to also take modules from another department as well. So, it's like, more things to learn, more things to understand, um, different modules to take and different assignments. So, it's quite a workload to have as a joint degree holder.
So, one of the exciting things being part of this Institute of Archaeology student is that we have the opportunity to take part in this 70-day compulsory fieldwork. So, you have to go join excavations and fieldwork for 70 days. I think, even for Oxford, it's only 40 days (of) compulsory fieldwork, but I think UCL has the highest number of days that you need to complete.
Maryam: Speaking of fieldwork, during your first year, you had undergone your first archaeological excavation training in West Sussex in the UK. And then you did another training abroad in Shymkent, Kazakhstan, right? Can you tell us more about them? What was the experience like?
Hamizah: Right. So with West Sussex, it was the compulsory training that we had to go to as a first year undergrad. So, everyone had to go to West Sussex to excavate for two weeks. Since it was my very first excavation, I wouldn't say it was easy. It was indeed not, not really easy, because it was during Ramadan. So, I was actually fasting for 18 hours for the first time and on site. So, I had the option of not fasting, but I guess it's not too bad also. So, like, I decided to just continue fasting for the days I was on site. And yeah, it was like a new experience of eating vegetarian food for Iftar because I didn't have any other meat options. And I guess the hardest part was feeling really homesick because everyone was celebrating Raya (Eid) at some point when I was on site. And uh, yeah, but then I guess chatting with friends really helped because, see, you spend your time and then not really think about your homesickness and everything. It really helped, spending time. And then we had the chance to go (on an) outing to a near town as well. I think it's called Chichester. So, we had the chance to explore the town itself in West Sussex. But yeah, I guess with the excavation experience itself, it was really nice.
I had really nice seniors, supervisors who are really – they're really supportive. It's not like it's like a harsh training or anything because everyone's aware that it's your first time excavating anyways. So, at some point, it felt, I mean, it's just my own feelings. I felt intimidated because my lack of knowledge on Britain’s history made me feel like I'm not really sure what I'm doing. But then our module coordinator was just so nice to explain things to me and he wasn't expecting me to know every single thing anyway because I'm not from Britain or England anyway. But then it's one of the first, I guess, it's…it kind of, like, made me understand what archaeology was all about by being on site. It's my first time being exposed to all these technical aspects of archaeology. So, it was really great, even though all the homesickness and missing Raya was not really something that I look forward to any other time.
And then, for the one in Kazakhstan – so, that's technically my second excavation experience. Yeah, that was an interesting experience as well, because I think when I was at the airport and then after I got my check-in luggage, we got a driver who took us to a hotel in the nearby city. And that was actually my first time seeing a driver on the left side, driving on the right side on the road, which is like, “Okay, that's the first for me.” I think we got to visit the museum in the city on the first day. So, because everyone had a long flight – it was an eight hour flight from Malaysia – so everyone's tired. I think it's also an eight-hour, seven-hour flight from the UK as well for my other friends. So, the first few days were just a bit chill. And then, we got to visit some museums in the city and everything before we got into, like, a 10-hour train journey to Shymkent. Because I think, maybe some people might be aware, but usually excavation sites are not located in (the) city center. So, even like in Malaysia itself, you have, like, sites in Kedah, in Sungai Petani, and then you have to travel, um, really long distance from the capital city. So, with Kazakhstan, it was like that as well. So, we had to go into this 10-hour train journey, so we spent overnight on the train journey. And then, there's a further two-hour journey to the campsite itself, like, a further two-hour ride on the van. It's…it's usually like a “kampung-kampung” vibe with any excavation site. With Kazakhstan, it was also something like that.
But then, what's interesting is that, because I've been in the UK at that point for a year, and then going to Kazakhstan, which is a Muslim country, and then we actually had a mosque, a lot of mosques near the site, and then hearing (the) Adhan after so long is like – it makes you feel like excited. And then, actually, the first day we were on site, it was actually Eid al-Adha. So, we had people – I had my friends asking questions about “What is, like, all this ‘Raya Haji’ about?” and then “What is the Adhan?”, “What is the announcement?” and everything. So it's just kind of interesting to…to listen to these kinds of questions. And then, people (were) asking you about Sufism, because it's, it's like we visit a lot of, like, Sufi mausoleums as well. But yeah, with Kazakhstan it's a different kind of challenge because we did have some days that we couldn't work on site because there were heavy sandstorms, so we had to do just, like, work on our campsite and just do some cleaning (of) the artefacts and things like that. With Kazakhstan, we had to leave – I think I remember – we had to leave at six, I think in the morning. So, we had to wake up way earlier, had breakfast at five, and then leave at six before (sunrise) because by that time, we hoped to go back to our campsite before midday. Because it's gonna be so hot, you can't even do anything on site because there's no, like, roof or anything. So, you just have to wake up really early and then go back really early before it gets so hot. I think it's a very interesting experience to see all these sights of Kazakhstan that other people might not see, the beautiful nature of Kazakhstan, and this, like, history of Islam, the other sides of Islam that I am not even aware of. Like, we're so used to this Sunni-Shia sort of, like, exposure, but I wasn't even aware there (were), like, other sects like Sufism, Wahhabi, and everything.
So, that's my very first kind of exposure of those kinds of things when I was in Kazakhstan. So yeah, it was a trip that I learned about a lot of things. Like, apart from other places and people, I guess I was also learning about myself and my religion. So yeah.
Maryam: That sounds like so much fun. I'm glad you also learned to discover yourself as well. But tell us, you know, what was, like, the coolest thing you learned during excavations, especially during the practical training? What kind of technical skills did you pick up?
Hamizah: All right, so with Kazakhstan, it was interesting because we expected it to be a settlement site. So, we expected to find something like maybe houses or settlements. You’d find maybe, like, postholes or buildings or, like, houses and things like that. But then what we also ended up finding [were] some human remains on site. I think there were at least two or three human remains. So, uh, for some archaeologists, for some of our supervisors, it's, it's not a bad thing that we find human remains, but documenting human remains on site is very tedious work, so you have to be very meticulous and very detailed to record every single bone that you find and, like, all these stratigraphy levels but because of that finding, we also get to learn how to document human remains. Because otherwise, I guess, archaeology really depends on what kind of things that you find as well, so your learning process really depends on the kind of artefacts that you find. So, with Kazakhstan, it's my first time discovering human remains on site. So, we got to learn how to document, how to study them. And then, we also found out that different countries have different legislations or different rules when it comes to human remains. So, with Kazakhstan, you have to actually bury the human remains again after you finish your studies, analysis, and everything. So yeah, different countries do it (in) different ways. So, that's how Kazakhstan does it. So yeah.
Maryam: So then, in 2018, you went back to your home country and underwent a one-month archaeology internship at Universiti Sains Malaysia, where you helped carry out an excavation in Sungai Batu, Kedah. Can you share with us what that experience was like? Was it any different to the excavations you had done in the UK and Kazakhstan in terms of the methodologies, procedures, and scope?
Hamizah: Right. So, obviously, they're all very different. There are very different challenges that come with it as well, mainly because we have different (geology). So, they're the kind of soil that you're dealing (with), the kind of structures that you're dealing with are so different. So, because of this, we have different excavation methods for these different places as well. So, with the UK and also with Kazakhstan, it's easy to see the layers. It's easy to dig. And then it's, like, the weather – it has different weather conditions as well. So, with (the) UK and Kazakhstan, it's an open site. But then, when I was in Sungai Batu, I was only there for a week, but I got to see how excavations were carried out. So, we actually had to put (up a) roof cover because it rained a lot. And then, sometimes, you can't even, you don't even know when to expect the rain, so you have to cover the excavation site. And then, sometimes, you have, like, some, I don't know, wild animals on site as well because in Malaysia, in Sungai Batu, it's located in the palm oil estate, so you have, like, all sorts of animals going around. So, you can't really expect what's going on, on different sites. So, with the technical aspect, even the way we excavate is different. So, with Malaysia, they have the Box (Grid) method. So you have like some grids that you excavate. You don't excavate the whole site itself. So, you have, like, different grids that you choose, according to , (the) supervisor, which one that you want to excavate. And then, if there's a need to, like, open another grid, then yeah, we'll do that.
And then, even with the stratigraphy, like, the layers, we also document it differently, so in the UK we did the Harris Matrix system, and then in Kazakhstan, we also did the same thing because our supervisors were from the UK as well. So, we just used the same method and then, because it's something that's obvious to see – but then in Malaysia, you can't use the Harris Matrix because the layers are so similar. Like, the colours are so similar, so you can't use the same method. So, they use this Spit system to document and all. So, yeah uh, it's very different, even the health and safety procedures of the culture are different, so yeah. The, you know, the hierarchy, and then how people interact with each other is also different among the archaeologists or among the people who join the excavation as well. There are different approaches to different countries, how they excavate and how they deal with excavations and all.
Maryam: Oh, that's so cool. Can you tell us a bit more about, like, the different systems that you mentioned in the UK and Kazakhstan versus Malaysia?
Hamizah: Mhmm, right. So, um, it's quite hard to explain without, like, a diagram because I think, it's, it's quite technical. But then, with the UK, we have this stratigraphy recording method, which is known as the Harris Matrix system. So, you can see how the first layer, the newest layer, is different from the older layer, maybe because its color is different, its texture is different, and then, sometimes, they have these buildings, um, I don’t know, underneath and everything. So, you can separate the layers just by looking at it, with your naked eyes. But then, with Malaysia, because our soil colour, like even different, even uh, the soil or, like, the layer that represents 5,000 years old is probably just going to be not even too significantly different from the one that represents, say, (an) 8,000-year-old layer. So, they have to, like, use this Spit system where they dig every 10 centimeters instead of just, like, going randomly at any sort of depth. So, they use this Spit system to make sure that they can control the layer and the depth. I guess, in a way, it's more organised that they can keep track of how long certain layers are.
Maryam: Fascinating. I understood so much more from your explanation there. That's so cool. Okay, it's interesting to note as well that your final year dissertation was focused on human remains in Kota Melaka, Malaysia. After spending years studying civilisations in Europe and other regions in Asia, did your internship back home influence your research topic or was this something you…you had always wanted to explore?
Hamizah: So, I guess maybe some people can already sense that because of my initial interest in forensic science, I've always been interested in studying human remains. Studying the human bones and also how things are like for humans after they have, been buried for, like, many, many, many, many years. So, that's something that I've always been interested in. So, the internship itself that I did in USM in Malaysia during my first and second year, I would say it didn't really influence me per se, but then it did provide me with connections that I could reach out to and also, like, (get) access to human remain collections for research. And I've always wanted to do something, uh, local, as in something related to Malaysia. So that it can contribute to Malaysian archaeology as well. So, uh, with that internship, I got to find out which human remains collections are available for research. So, um, yeah, I then got to know that USM at the time actually had that “human remains from Kota Melaka” collection under their supervision at the time.
It's now not with them anymore. It's with the Melaka Gallery, but then because of that, I decided to study because at the time, they had three human remains with them. And then, one was with the Jabatan Warisan Negara. So yeah, I had to go to Jabatan Warisan Negara to do some analysis on the one human remains that they had with them at the time as well. So yeah, because human remains – because forensic science involves the study of human remains. So, that's why I've always tried to, like, still tailor my interest and my study and my research towards going into forensics. So, that's why I chose to focus on human remains for my dissertation.
Maryam: Fantastic. You graduated with a bachelor's degree in Archaeology and Anthropology in 2020, but then you decided to continue your studies with a Master in Bioarchaeological and Forensic Anthropology at UCL. Tell us more about your postgraduate experience. Was it more intensive and rigorous compared to your bachelor's degree?
Hamizah: Yes, I would say it's very, very different especially because my degree was a BA degree and then my master's is an MSc so with an MSc degree, it's very lab-based. It's very science-based. It's more daunting and even more arduous because I was also juggling between working part-time and studying full-time as well because for my master's, I didn't get a scholarship, like, a full scholarship for my studies. So, I had to work to get some extra money for my living expenses. I've had days when I spent time in the lab until late (at) night because we have quizzes every week and then we had tests every month or every term. I think, I think every month. So yeah, it's a lot of studying. And then, I've even done, like, a couple of sleepovers in uni because I had to work on my research as well. So yeah, it's very…it’s very science-based. In fact, I think for some people, they can probably say it's quite medical-oriented because it's forensic anthropology. You're studying human…human body, basically. So, we have a lot of exposure on how our anatomy works as well. So, even though we're studying the bones, but you also need to know where this muscle goes because it's also connected to the bones as well. So, it's a lot of, like, studying. I don't study medics. I can't verify this, but my roommate was saying that I looked like one of those medic students because we had these anatomy notes going on, uh, in my room and then, we had to know all these different bone names and I had to remember all this and so on. So, we had to know all this basic anatomy knowledge for my master's studies and it does feel like studying medicine. But instead of treating people, I guess we're studying those who have been dead for years, so yeah.
Maryam: Was there a lot of field work involved during your master's degree?
Hamizah: So, we had one course called Advanced Forensic Anthropology. So, with that one, we did have to go into, like, a mock crime scene. So, it's not a real one. So, we had to go to this one, um, uh, particular field but where they basically – my module coordinators, they set up a mock case. So, we had to find out, we had to, like, analyse where do we…do we think the human remains were buried and stuff. So, um yeah, we – it's, it's only a three or four-day fieldwork, but it's a mock crime scene. But still, you, they look at not just (your) excavation skill, but also how you interact with your teammates. And then, with forensic anthropology, or even forensic archaeology, I think it's different from normal excavations because of the time pressure. Like, the police are, like, pressuring you for information because they need to know things fast and quick before, obviously, they want to catch the bad people and stuff. So, the time pressure is different compared to, like, the normal archaeological excavation because there's no time pressure. And then, you can take your time to do your detailed work and so on. So yes, we did have, like, one field experience.
Maryam: So now, after you completed your master's degree, you worked as a Student Services Administrator on campus at UCL for four months. Did you ever feel like extending your stay in the UK past that and becoming a full-time archaeologist abroad?
Hamizah: Uh yeap, I went for job interviews and was actually offered to extend my contract as a Student Services Administrator in UCL. But due to my scholarship requirement, because I was bonded with Yayasan Khazanah, that required me to come back and serve my bond in Malaysia. It's just something in my mind that I'm just going to eventually have to come back. So, it's not like a long term plan that I had to stay in the UK and become an archaeologist. Because at the end of the day, I guess I've always had this in mind that I'll come back and serve my country in something like that. So, even – had I gotten the chance to stay abroad for a couple of years, I think I would always like to settle down in Malaysia, because that's just the mindset that I've always had, knowing that I need to come back and serve my bond in my home country.
Maryam: Fast forward to 2023, you landed a full-time job at the Perbadanan Muzium Negeri Pahang in Malaysia. What kind of skills and experience did you need to show to become a museum curator?
Hamizah: I think this is a very good question because I've not thought about this a lot as well since it has only been two years since I started this full-time job at the museum. I wish I had asked my director the qualities that he was looking for when he interviewed me two years ago. With curatorial work, it's actually very broad because in the museum, maybe people just see from the outside, exhibition work that's being done. But then, in our museum, for example, we actually have the research unit, we have the gallery unit, exhibition unit, and then there are units that focus just on managing the collection. We have the administration unit and the development team and so on. So, uh, for me, I'm a curator in the research unit, so I believe research skills, uh, a good research skill is a must, particularly historical research. So, that's one of the requirements that you need to have in order to be part of the research – you need as a curator. And then, I guess, if you are working in a museum, passion in cultural heritage preservation is something that you need to have and then, obviously, attitude in learning because before I came here, I'm not familiar or not really well-versed in the history of Pahang anyway, so you need to have some attitude in wanting to learn and wanting to just explore as much as you can. So, that continuous learning mindset needs to be there.
And then, um, I guess I can't speak for all museums in Malaysia, but with Muzium Pahang specifically, we have our own vision and direction that has been set by the director especially, so we had a phase where the museum was an intellectual garden. So, at the time, it was like trying to make the museum as something like a museum in a garden kind of thing. So, you have an intellectual place being surrounded by nature. But then, now, we are currently in the phase where we're focusing more on the research side. So, we are in the phase where the principles and philosophy behind the development of our museum from 2022 is actually based on this concept called “Fiqh al-Watan.”
It's like an Arabic term that means, like, you try to use knowledge about your relationship between individuals and the homeland from an Islamic point of view. So, this development that we've been doing, I think it takes into account the context of local social cultural traditions. And then, we try to work on the development and the current needs of the museum institution. So, I guess with Muzium Pahang itself, I can say that having, like, an interest or even a background in Islamic history or, like, a basic understanding or interest in Islamic history would probably be a plus point for you to understand the direction of where Muzium Pahang is going. So yeah, that's for our museum specifically.
Maryam: So can you give us more than a glimpse of your daily life as a museum curator? What's your usual daily routine? What kind of projects have you participated in at the museum?
Hamizah: Right, so, depending on the time of the year, we do have very hectic days and then we do also have, like, some very little bit of quiet days as well, especially during Ramadan where, you know, we don't have a lot of programmes and a lot of, like, new exhibition work to do. Most of the time, apart from Ramadan, we were just, like, busy preparing for a lot of things. So, for example, in August last year, we were – we just launched or, like, reopened our new galleries. Not really new galleries, it's an old gallery, but we just reopened it with (a) new updated narrative. So, because of that, we spent a lot of months before that researching, writing, and then discussing and updating our write-ups. And then, at the same time, also giving feedback and monitoring how things are done by our vendors and consultants because we do have vendors doing the printing work and stuff for the museum exhibition. Those things took up most of our time last year. But then, we also have the public programmes. So, sometimes we have the celebration – we organised “Sambutan Nuzul Al-Quran” and then “Sambutan Raya Haji Korban” and things like that.
With the launching of the new updated exhibition last year, I was part of the media committee, so preparing press kits and finding information for the press, for the media, was one of the things I did last year. We have a very close relationship with the Palace, “Istana Pahang” as well. So, we have days where we have visits from the royals and then some institutions and the universities. So, we do have to, as curators, we do bring these people around the museum, then do some, like, a tour of the museum as well. So, those are one of the times that I can get to, like, polish my presentation skills and comprehension of the galleries as well. Well, most of the time, it's just research projects. So, it doesn't mean that I'm just, like, sitting down on my desk, just looking at the reading things, but we also go to archives, go to see manuscript letters, and then, we also did some field work. So last year, I went to Jerantut for a fieldwork to actually study about the traditional transport in Pahang. So, we looked at how this traditional “perahu” was being built. And then, we have days where we went to conferences, meetings and things like that. So, it's all sorts of different things. Like, every month, I think there’s, like, different themes of the month as well. It depends on what we're working on.
But yeah, you can learn a lot from engaging with different people within the museum and also, people really meet outside as well. So, it's like, yeah, there's a lot of things to learn and there's a lot of things to do as a curator. And, I think, if you are the assistant curator and the…the museum assistant as well, there are a lot of things that you can learn about this museum management because it varies from time to time. There are a lot of things that you can do in one particular year.
Maryam: Dang, that was just one year, but that sounds like a pretty hectic schedule.
Hamizah: Right.
Maryam: But I still think that that's – the fact that you still got to learn new things while on the job. A lot, actually. It's also really fascinating. When people study archaeology, everyone imagines that they're gonna be like, you know, the next Indiana Jones. But being a museum curator actually sounds really, really interesting. There's a lot more. And yeah, it was actually more than what I thought you guys usually do.
Hamizah: Right.
Maryam: But do you ever hope to become a full-time archaeologist one day and lead your own excavation team in Malaysia? Because there's still so much history to uncover, isn't there?
Hamizah: Right, so yeah, I've always seen myself as an aspiring archaeologist first and museum curator second. So, I guess, yeah, as somebody who studied archaeology, it would be great to be able to be directly involved in excavation work and fieldwork in Malaysia and, even more so, leading them. But I believe that the work that I'm doing right now is an important exposure for me as well and (a) preparation on what's to come. So, whether it's in archaeology or even anthropology or even museum studies as well. So, with my experience and being at the museum, I guess it makes me aware of different sites of history and heritage as well. So, there are things that I think I wouldn't even see and I wouldn't even learn if I end up being an archaeologist, like, right after I graduate.
So, for example, there's this thing called the “curation crisis.” So, it's basically something that a lot of archaeologists probably have overlooked where we tend to think about excavation on its own. A lot of people don't really think about the management of the artefacts that we uncovered after it's being excavated out of the site. Like, for example, if you find an artefact, for example, like a huge boat or something, some people don't even think about what happens to the boat after you excavate it. Who manages it? Like, does it go to the museum? Does it go to (a) university? Or does it go to, like, I don't know, being left just on the side? So, this kind of, like, management of heritage, artefacts or cultural heritage is not something that is – something that, I guess (has) a lot of discussion on it, um, when it comes to, like, artefacts in university for research purposes. But then, when it comes to, like, artefacts that no one is overseeing it, it becomes an issue. Like, who manages them? Like, what's the post-excavation plan?
Sometimes, these are not being, like, thought through during the excavation before so – and with rescue excavations, in archaeology, it involves time pressure, so there's like a need to have, like, more synergy with, like, museums (and) heritage institutions to actually discuss about all these things and then have, like, more cooperation between these different heritage institutions, I guess. Yeah, if I end up being an archaeologist, I guess that's like - hopefully it will be, like, a good exposure for me to know, like, how things are like in museums and why all museums are like – museums can't do everything on their own as well because they have their own artefacts to manage.
Maryam: I think it's great that you became multi-talented through sort of, I wouldn't say diverging, but sort of, doing something a little different than what you initially thought you were going to be. But yeah, in the end, you ended up expanding your skill set. And I think that's only going to benefit you as a future archaeologist if you do happen to go down that route one day. So, do you have any tips to share with our listeners, especially those who also dream of becoming archaeologists or those who want to work in a museum one day?
Hamizah: All right. So, I think for – I guess to the younger generations like students who are interested in going into this path, I would say, have a really strong faith because this journey will feel lonely at times or, yeah, actually a lot of times because it's not a path taken by many. So, you may not have a lot of people understanding what you're doing or you may even have your family or even friends questioning, like, what kind of things that you do, or don't even understand what you're fighting for, what kind of, like, your interests (you have) and things like that. But, I guess, you need to trust yourself and trust the process, so if it's really something that you're passionate about, just go for it. And then, I guess, it's important to surround yourself with supportive friends and also colleagues because these are the people that actually understand what your interest is about and what you're actually going for. So, regardless of what people say in questioning, because I've had actual personal experience of people questioning, “Why do I end up going to archaeology?” despite my good results, for example, and then I was, like, “Well, but everyone is destined to be a doctor, lawyers and things like that.”
So, I guess, just, um yeah, just keep surrounding yourself with people who are positive about what you're doing and then, get in touch with people from the field if you're not really familiar with it yet, to find out about the development, the progress of the field, and the country. If you believe in yourself, in your passion towards heritage, history and culture, then go for it and yeah, have faith and trust the process.
Maryam: That's beautiful advice, just beautiful. I'm sure so many of the younger generation can learn a lot from that. Okay, last but not least, what's next for Nurul Hamizah Afandi?
Hamizah: I think this is a very, like, deep question because I guess, uh well, it's interesting because my plan for this year – because of what had happened for the past two years, adapting to this curatorial role has not been easy because, I guess, with me coming back from the UK, adapting to the local culture again and then, from archaeology going to, like, you know, forensics and then, now ending up at a museum – it's like a lot of changes in transition.
So, the plan was just to, like, take it slow in 2025, but I guess 2025 has not been as slow as I thought it would be. So, I guess it's the matter of just, like, embracing the journey because I guess I'm probably just exactly where I am needed. So, I'm just going to take the opportunity to learn as much as I can while I'm still here because we have a very – it's…it has not been easy. Like, no, I guess no workplace is perfect or ideal. But we do have a very visionary director and then I have very supportive and intellectual colleagues that I can talk to and discuss a lot of things with. So, it's something that I'm planning to make the most out of while I'm still here. But at the same time, I also aspire to be more involved in archaeological and anthropological research and initiatives, not just within the museum, but also outside in the Malaysian context in general. Well, currently I'm also one of the ICOMOS members, so it stands for International Council of Monuments and Sites, so that's where I got to also, to know – got in touch with, like, some people who are interested in heritage preservation as well. There…there are a lot of, like, archaeologists and architects who have been in the field for, like, 20 or 30 years. There are a lot of veterans there, so I can – I get to learn that and gain a lot of exposure on cultural heritage preservation in Malaysia and also around the world. So, I guess, at the moment, I guess, I would say the goal would be committing to development projects in Muzium Pahang because we have so many new museums currently restored. I think we have at least three to five or even more – I think almost 10 projects – currently being carried out. So, there are a lot of developments, new developments (that are) going to happen for the next three to five years. So, I guess I'm going to be focusing on just polishing my curatorial skills, learning bits and pieces about museum management and how it relates to archaeology in…in general as well. So yeah, what happens next? Who knows? I also have been (a) go with the flow kind of person. So, we're just waiting for the best to come.
Maryam: Thank you so much, Hamizah. It was great talking to you. We learned so much about the study of archaeology and anthropology today.
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