Publishing a book is no cakewalk, much less if you’re an aspiring YA fiction writer hoping to see your stories grace the shelves of a Barnes and Noble. Just like getting into an Ivy League university, the odds of signing a traditional book deal for most budding authors are as low as one to two per cent. But starting out in the States, or countries that are home to a majority of the world’s biggest publishers, can give you an edge. In this episode, we speak with US graduate and Filipino YA novelist, Mae Coyiuto, about the many ways studying abroad opens doors to creative careers, the diverse roles you can explore within the publishing industry, and of course, what you should do if you’re dead set on becoming a published author.
Maryam: Hey, what's up guys? Welcome back to the Extra Credit Podcast. If it's your first time tuning in, this is a series where we speak to international students, graduates, and faculty members worldwide about the beauty and perks of studying abroad.
I'm Maryam, your host. If you're active on BookTok and Bookstagram, or if you’ve simply got a passion for writing and dream of breaking into the publishing world, our guest, Mae Coyiuto, has some tips to share with you. From all the way in the Philippines, Mae Coyiuto is best known as the author of the teen romance novel, Chloe and the Kaishao Boys, named one of the New York Public Library's top 10 books for teens in 2023. The story itself is one I'm sure many of us can relate to.
A high school girl in Manila named Chloe wishes to attend college in the US, but her overprotective dad keeps setting her up on arranged dates. Why? To keep her from studying abroad. Now, just like the main protagonist of the book, Mae Coyiuto herself dreamed of studying in the US. And fortunately for her, she did. Mae, welcome. We're very excited to have you here with us today. How are you?
Mae: I'm good, thanks for having me. And I feel like you should be the one to pitch my book to other people. That was way better than what I usually do (laughs).
Maryam: (Laughs) Now, in your book, while Chloe wants to study animation in the US, she faces some pushback from her father and family members who want her to study back home in the Philippines, just like her cousin, Peter, right?
Mae: Mhmm.
Maryam: As someone who shares the same heritage with Chloe and who has also studied in the US yourself, was this theme inspired by a true story or perhaps your own experience?
Mae: Yeah, actually, when my friends would read the synopsis of the book or the, I guess, the description before reading it, they would always be like, “Mae, are you Chloe?” Uh…it's not an autobiographical book, but I did borrow a lot from personal experiences from observing a lot of Chinese-Filipino girls growing up also. I actually just wanted to write like a young adult fiction story that starred a Chinese-Filipino girl in Manila. Because, like, growing up, I really loved young adult books. I loved reading, but most of the rom-coms that I would read always starred people in the U.S. or teenagers based in Western countries. So, this was kind of like my spin on, what would that look like if someone from Manila got to be the main character.
Maryam: Oh, really cool, but were your parents supportive of your dreams of studying abroad?
Mae: Yeah, I was very lucky. So, I'm the youngest of four siblings, and then my eldest sister actually studied abroad. She went to Singapore for college, and then I think a lot of older siblings would relate. I feel like they paved the way for it to become a bit easier for younger siblings to, like, do their own thing. So I think, if not for her, I wouldn't have really gotten the idea of, like, I could study abroad. But my parents are very supportive and they never really pushed back on me wanting to write. I think they just never expected that I would make a career out of it. So, I think a lot of people could relate when they want to do, like, a creative career. They feel like it's not usually seen as, like, a practical thing to pursue, or it's usually seen as a hobby. So that's kind of what I channeled when I was writing Chloe. Not really from my experiences with my parents, but more of like, from community, society, and like, that idea that doing something like animation or a creative thing is not something worth pursuing. I'm lucky with my own family. But yeah, I think it's more (of) what I observed from the community around me.
Maryam: Interesting that you say that because in 2011 you were a Young Star columnist for the Philippine Star. So, writing has always been a huge passion of yours. But in 2012, you pursued a bachelor's degree in psychology at Pomona College. So, what inspired you to take a different path or pursue this field at the beginning?
Mae: Yeah, so I really loved writing. I started writing when I was, like, nine years old or even younger. But then I always saw it as, like, something I enjoyed doing, and I was really exposed to – when I thought of, like, authors or books that are usually from international countries. So, I never really thought that I would study (at) college and then study writing. And none of my classmates were also doing that. So, I was so focused – I'm sure a lot of people in your podcast could relate, that when you're trying to apply for a college, you're just so focused on that process of the application, of doing well in high school, that for me, I actually didn't think so much about what I wanted to do in college until I was there.
And then, so, when I got to college, I was lucky that I went to Pomona, and they encouraged students to take a lot of classes from different majors, departments, so that you could figure out what you wanted. So, I was lucky that I spent my first year kind of doing that, like taking classes. And I took a biology class, I took a film class, and I took a psychology class. And I really liked my intro psych class. And then, afterwards, there was a class on Asian American psychology, which...I never knew that was a thing. I didn't know, like, you could study, like, cultural psychology, and I super enjoyed that class and that professor became my faculty advisor. And I guess I ended up with psychology just because I really enjoyed the classes. But yeah, that was kind of, like, my college freshman trajectory.
Maryam: So what was your experience like leaving home, knowing you'll be thousands of miles away from your loved ones for several years?
Mae: Yeah, I was very lucky, in that aspect, that my sister was actually in LA. She was working at that time. So, at least I had family kind of close to me in college. And then I also had an aunt who lived in LA. So, I had some family, but I think I also – I don't know, maybe I just had delayed processing in high school that I was like, I never really thought about the fact that I was going to be so far away until I was already in college. And then, there's this part in the book where Chloe, the main character, is with her high school best friend and she kind of reflects on, like, the idea of everyone at home moving on without her. And I think that was some of the feelings I was having also early on in college, that, like, you could be in college miles away doing your own thing, but then you get, like, a sense of, like, “Oh, what's happening back home?”
Like, everyone's lives kept on going as well. But you're not there to see how other people or the people you love from home grow. So, I think that's anyone who's ever left home. I feel like that's a feeling you have always even if so many things are happening for you elsewhere. You still have your home at the back of your mind. I feel like that's something I…I talk a lot about with my friends who also experience living abroad.
Maryam: Did you face any challenges while you were there? I mean, other than the emotional aspect of being away from home.
Mae: I think after college, like, I think especially right now in the US, I feel like a lot of international students are having trouble with, like, the visa situation of what happens after college. Like, there's this rule in the US that your job or internships have to be related to your field of study. So, like, sometimes I would want to get a job here or do, like, an internship here, but it wasn't related to, like, my major. So, that wasn't an option for me, and when I would apply for certain programmes or certain things, the requirement was, you had to be a citizen. And I guess, like, the reason why I also moved back home was, I was in the US still during 2020. So, that was when the pandemic was at its height. So, during that time, I think everything was just so unsure. And yeah, I think, like, a lot of international students go through this where the future might be very unpredictable. Like, a lot of things are not in your control. So yeah, I think, like, being there just made me like things where I can, like, predict what's gonna happen. But then, I think, being abroad with all those factors just made me kind of, like, trust in the process a bit more. But yeah, still working on that though.
Maryam: Okay, speaking on, like, being, you know, able to predict what happens in the future, right, you mentioned just now that finding jobs in the US, like, you have to make sure that they relate to your major or your degree, right? But despite that, during your bachelor's degree in 2013, you also joined the Cinematic Arts Summer Program at the University of Southern California to study screenwriting and 2D animation.
Mae: Mm-hmm.
Maryam: So, did this summer programme reignite or fuel your passion for writing and storytelling?
Mae: Yeah, I guess going along the lines of me kind of just, like, trying to (be) like – My role model was my sister. So, she actually did this programme when she was in college. She did, I think it was the directing programme at USC – for a summer. And then, she told me all about it. And then, she even brought me to the USC film campus. And then, I still remember, like, going there and it just felt unreal, like that whole campus, especially their film department. You just felt like, “Wow, people who made movies actually went here.”
And that was, like, the vibe you get. And, so, after my freshman year, I was thinking that I wanted to kind of make the most out of my summer, and then, I decided to apply for this programme. And I always loved film and TV. I think those mediums inspired my love for storytelling as much as books. So yeah, I think that's why I wanted to try out screenwriting and animation. I never really pursued them or did any classes on them before. But I guess it was just…it was really cool. I'm not sure if that reignited my love for stories, but I learned a lot from, like, how to tell a story effectively in other mediums. And I also learned, I guess, with my writing, I feel like I like writing dialogue a lot. I like being more visual, I guess. So, I guess that's something I learned when I took that screenwriting class. I think the professor mentioned that dialogue was, like, a strength of, like, screenwriters. And before, I was kind of insecure that I liked dialogue so much that I wasn’t that great at the other parts of writing. But with reading these screenplays, I learned you can say so much with dialogue. So yeah, I think, like, I just picked up on what I did well and what I could work on more with writing from trying out other formats or mediums.
Maryam: Ah, we can see why Chloe wanted to be at USC so badly, right? Because it sounds really exciting since you’ve been there yourself. Like, okay, can you give us, like, a behind-the-scenes look at what the programme was like in a structural sense? Like, what exactly were the classes like? Like, how did you apply? How can prospective students get in if they want to?
Mae: Mm-hmm. Yeah, this was back in 2013. So, I'm not sure if the process has changed a lot since then. But for the classes, I remember with the animation class, it was actually a 2D animation course. I'm not sure if they still offer that because I think 2D animation was already kind of phasing out, even, back then. But it was cool. Like, I remember we were given, like, lectures and then we had readings, but then a lot of the class was focused on you kind of, like, making your own project by the end of the class. And I remember we would use this light box where you get to, like, place all your sketches and then see how you can, like, I guess with how animation is, especially 2D animation, you would make the drawing…same drawing over and over again with just, like, minor adjustments. And then, by the magic of animation, you can see it, like, coming to life.
I'm not sure if I'm describing the process correctly, but yeah, I super enjoyed it. They also had like a – I remember we got to try, like, stop motion animation. So, with that, I remember I made, like, a puppet, and then I got to take, like, different pictures of this puppet, with minor adjustments to their poses, and then make, like, a short video out of that. So yeah, I had so much fun with that class. And for the screenwriting class, it functioned more, I think I remember, more like a workshop. So, we were given access to, like, the library where we could, like, read a bunch of samples of screenplays to learn, like, the format, but then our professor really encouraged us to write our own stuff. So, I remember we had, like, a bunch of writing assignments. And then, we got to, like, pass our work around the room. And then, people would read it, and then give their feedback. Yeah, I think it's from all the writing courses I've had. I think it's similar where you have a blend of lectures, but I feel like the workshop portion of writing classes are where you learn so much from critiquing other work and, like, from other people, giving comments on your work as well. Yeah.
Maryam: Speaking of writing, while you were studying in the US, you also managed to author a couple of books for children and young adults, which were published by Anvil Publishing, which is based in the Philippines. So what was the process like from writing those books to pitching the ideas of the concepts and getting them published?
Mae: Yeah, uh, so that was a long story actually, of how that happened. So, I wasn't writing so much when I was in college. And then, I actually had to take, like, a leave of absence. I was going through, like, a personal injury. So, I was back home recovering from, like, an operation. And then, I wasn't doing much for, like, a few days, and I get really restless when I'm not doing anything, especially, like, if I can't, like, move so much. So, my sister, again, suggested to me like, “Oh Mae, why don't you write while you're recovering, and like, doing things?”
So, uh yeah, I decided to write a story. And that was the first time I tried writing again in years. And then, it ended up being, like a novella draft of a YA story. And then, I worked with an editor from Anvil Publishing when I was younger, and I decided, like, “Oh, I had this project with me. Why don't I send it to this editor and see; would they be interested in doing anything with it?”
I didn't really expect much. But then, the team at Anvil has always been so supportive of my writing even until today. So, they were interested. And yeah, I remember that was, like, 2014. It took, like, a year, I think, to make those edits, and then kind of get it ready for publication. And then we released that book a year after, from what I remember.
Maryam: That's actually really cool, though, because I think it's interesting that you've already sort of gotten, like, some experience of publishing books in the Philippines. But then, in 2018 and 2019, you still went on, like, multiple different internships, basically like a marathon of internships at various American publishing houses like St. Martin's Press, Soho Press, Simon & Schuster, and Macmillan. So, securing even one internship in the US is super stressful, especially as an international student. So, can you tell us how you prepared, and applied, and then successfully, you know, landed multiple internships in a row? Because that's really, really impressive.
Mae: Yeah. Um, so actually, after college and after that whole time when I was working on that book, that was kind of, like, that moment when I did that book back home that I decided, like, “Oh, I kind of want to see, what if I decided to pursue this writing thing or like really went for it?”
So, I was researching, and found there were, like, graduate programmes on writing for young adults and children, since everybody knew that I really liked YA fiction. And so, I applied and got accepted. And then, I moved to New York for a few years. And basically, during that programme – I got that since I was studying, like, writing – I had the opportunity to, like, do internships within that field, within publishing. And so, basically most of US publishing, I think, is based in New York, especially back then before COVID, I think they weren't as open to, like, remote work. Now I think, at least I think it's expanding to other areas in the US. But when I was there, I basically thought, like, I'm already in the place where I have the opportunity (to), like, learn from publishing and do these internships if I can.
So, every semester. I was like, “Okay, let me send out any opening I could find. Let me just send out a resume or send out my CV.” And I was lucky there were some people in my MFA class who were also in publishing, and they were very kind. And they would send me like, “Oh, Mae, here's an opening that you might be interested in.” Or they would be willing to, like, look over, my cover letter to just give some comments. There was also a programme, I think it was called, uh, Representation Matters. So there was this group in publishing who felt like they saw the issue of, like, publishing not being very diverse in the industry. So, what they would do is, they would have mentors, kind of like guide those people of colour who want to go into publishing or in the industry. So I applied for this mentorship programme and I was lucky to get, like, two mentors, and they were so gracious in giving advice and also, like, meeting with me to just go about, like, different areas of publishing, different ways I could, like, try out or go for these internships. And yeah, I think I got rejected by a lot of opportunities also while applying. But the cool thing is, like, when I would apply for, like, this publishing company, and then I would usually be in touch with, like, the HR person. And for example, the next semester, (when) I would apply again, it was nice that they would remember me. And I don't know if they would be like, “Okay, she's…she's trying out again.”
So, usually, like, if it's my second or third time applying to a company, that's when they would be, like, “Oh, okay. Like, Mae really wants to like, um…” or they knew me, or they were willing to, like, offer me, like, an interview or things like that. For my first publishing internship, I remember it was with St. Martin's and then it was in marketing. And it wasn't for children's publishing. I remember it was more for nonfiction titles or for cookbooks. And then, I think when I worked with that department, they all knew that I was really into, like, children's publishing, and so, a few semesters later, when I applied for an opening in children's marketing, I think the HR person recognised me and was just like, “Oh yeah, let's set you up with an interview.”
Yeah, I think that was my favorite one out of everything. Like, my last internship was working with children's and young adult books, and figuring out, like, how to market them and working with books that I love. I would say, like, not all genres, but, like, I read, like, other genres of books. But then, YA fiction is just something that, I think, goes to my heart, if that makes sense. So, I really love getting to work with those books also.
Maryam: I would say, my favorite genre is also YA. So, I get the appeal. Okay. So, when you completed all these internships, I remember I saw one of your posts on Instagram where you applied for an internship at Penguin Random House back in, like, 2018.
But then I think. I'm not sure if it didn't work out or so, did it?
Mae: Ah, no, yeah, I had an interview, but I ended up not getting that internship. But yeah, I remember the two times I went to that building. So when you enter the Penguin Random House headquarters, you just see, like, huge shelves of books. And then like, I don't know, I got starstruck, I think, like both times I went to that building. And even after my interview, I remember going down the lobby, and I think the security guard was just looking at me because I was just, like, staring all over the room. And then, I was just telling, like, “Do you mind if I take, like, selfies here?” And then he's like, “Yeah, go ahead.” Um, but yeah, that — the first time I went to that office was for an internship interview. And the second one was to meet with the marketing department for Chloe and the Kaishao Boys. So, that was a really great full circle moment, I think.
Maryam: I was just about to say that was like a full circle moment because, like, in 2023, you finally signed a book deal with one of the Big Five publishers, which is Penguin Random House, and released your first title under them, which is the book we're talking about today, Chloe and the Kaishao Boys. So, first, how did you feel about that?
Mae: Uh, I don't know. Sometimes, I think, like, it doesn't feel real until now. Just because like, uh, I'm sure you love books – but as someone who loves books, like, it just feels like, I guess when I see, like, one of the books that I loved growing up – um, for me, like, Chloe and the Kaishao Boys, it's hard for me to grapple that, like, it's the same. It's also a book, if that makes sense. Like, I don't know. It still feels like a dream come true whenever I process that, like, someone wanted to publish this book or, like someone from all the way in Malaysia picked up this book. But yeah, sometimes, I just have to convince myself...like, yeah, that happened. I'm always like, I always keep thinking about, like, “Oh, no, what if, like, no one wants to publish my next one, or what if I can't come up with another story again?” But yeah, I'm not sure if it has, like, registered yet. But yeah, I'm very grateful that, you know, we've reached a time where, like, publishers abroad are seeing that, people want to read about characters outside the US or outside of Western countries and are willing to, like, bet on international authors as well. So, yeah.
Maryam: Would you say that your time spent studying and interning abroad has sort of played a part in growing and helping you achieve those new milestones as an author?
Mae: Well, I would say, I do think that, whenever I talk to especially aspiring writers from the Philippines, I always say that I don't think you need to study abroad or go abroad to pursue becoming an author. I feel like we have such great talent, back home, and I wish publishers just really invest in so much talent we have here. But I guess for me, the eight years I lived abroad, it definitely inspired me. I mean, it comes out with the themes I write about in Chloe and the Kaishao Boys. And I feel like those eight years just exposed me to meeting so many different types of people, and especially people who are pursuing different creative dreams. I feel like that was such an eye-opener for me to just meet people who want to be writers, people who want to be actors or screenwriters, or, like, just seeing that, there's so many ways to achieve a creative career, and that wanting a creative life is something that a lot of people want also. I think that's just like, uh, going abroad just, like, made things seem more possible for me. I think that's…that's the greatest gift that that experience gave me, honestly.
Maryam: I think it certainly did because not only are you writing novels, which is, like, your big dream, but at the same time, you're now also helping the younger generation achieve their big dreams too. Case in point: You're currently working part-time as a graduate coach at Ingenious Prep, where you give counseling to high school students in the US and Asia, and help them improve their college applications, right? Can you tell us what that process looks like, and what inspired you to become students' go-to person for advice?
Mae: So actually, when I was in college, there was a group here in the Philippines. It was called CAMP. I think it's like College and Admissions Mentors of the Philippines, something like that. These two Filipinos who studied abroad wanted to give high school students, like, a resource where, if they do have this goal or this dream, for them to get guidance from college students who've already done it. So, I would volunteer to be a mentor and then I would help out high school students based on my experience, I would tell them like, “Oh, this is how I worked on the application.” Or I would give feedback on their essays. And I really enjoyed the work.
And I became really interested in this whole field of college admissions, and I reached out to the admissions person at Pomona saying that I was interested in the field or, like, I wanted to chat with them about their career as well. And after we had some conversations, he recommended me to meet with this person who worked in a college counseling company. And that company had, like, a whole writing department where the main focus was just guiding students through their application essays. So, I worked there for a bit. And then after that, I transferred to Ingenious Prep. But, I guess I never knew this was an actual career as well, like college counseling. But I guess, I love the personal statement process just because, I feel like in the US, with their college essays, it's a lot more personal writing than, I guess, a lot of high school students are used to in school or are assigned to for school requirements. So, I really love, like, working with a high school student, especially those who feel like they don't like writing or they feel like they're not good writers. And then, they end up having such a great touching personal story that they could tell in their essay. So yeah, that's my favorite part of the process. And I think I have a soft spot for, like, whenever they assign me an international student just because, I feel like my own experience really, uh, changed my life. So, if I could help another kid find the school that's right for them or the path that makes the most sense for them, then uh yeah, it's fulfilling, I would say. But most of the time, I'm also like, “I hope I'm, like, guiding these students in the right way.” Hopefully I am, but yeah.
Maryam: I think we can always say that is probably another full circle moment for you because you started out as, like, this bright-eyed international student. And that sounds like your character, your protagonist, Chloe as well, right? And now you're the person who's helping other international students also achieve their dreams of studying abroad. I would say it's pretty poetic, isn't it? Right? So, last but not least, what's next for Mae Coyiuto?
Mae: Yeah, I'm actually working on my next book. My deadline's actually next week. Uh, but it's set to be released in February of 2026. So that's next year. But yeah, it's also a YA book. It's also based in Manila. It's about this girl who basically lost her dad when she was young and then suddenly gets to meet the ghost of her dad, but she's the only one who can see him. It sounds like horror. Whenever I pitch it, people are like, “So, this is like a horror story.” It's similar to Chloe where it's a lot about family, some romance in there. I guess, my friend described it as, like, “You'll be laughing, but you'll also be crying at some parts.” So yeah, I guess that's, like, my spiel about what this next book is going to be. But yeah, that's kind of like what I've been working on for the past few years.
Maryam: That sounds so exciting. I'm going to be looking forward to it, so I'll keep my eyes peeled on that.
Mae: Thank you.
Maryam: Okay. Thank you so much, Mae. It was such a pleasure to speak with you and learn more about the world of publishing and also learn more about your experience of studying abroad, and interning there, and working there. All right, guys, if you're interested in listening to more cool stories from fellow international students and grads, don't forget to check us out at www.studyinternational.com
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Until next time.